The Occasional Observer

For those of you interested in the AMSOL kerfuffle, it's worth checking out the blog Fumare. It frustrates me that they've taken the wrong side in the debate, b/c if it weren't for that, they seem like they'd be great guys. For one, they have a love of smoking. Two, they're extremely well versed in Catholic issues and bring a lot of interesting posts to bear on the state of the Church. Three, they're just plain funny, even when they're being insulting. And last but not least, they care about AMSOL (though maybe not as much as they care about a few of the profs they're idolizing above the school).

Probably the only problem for them is that they're right so often, they have a hard time seeing when they're wrong. In reviewing a post on the blog (about Tom Monaghan throwing his support behind Sam Brownback for President), one of the main Fumare posters, A.M., went on a bit of a rip against wealthy Catholics (sparked by his anger at T.M. and those who support him). The discussion that followed was very interesting: the poster who supported Monaghan (30-06) said he'd continue to be a booster of AMSOL regardless of how the Florida-move controversy is resolved. No such offer was forthcoming from the anti-administration set.

The entire post and comments on Fumare can be viewed here.

Below is a pared down version of what I thought were the more interesting parts of the conversation:

Run, Sam, Run!

TM to assist Sen. Brownback for a presidential run. All I can say is, "Run, Sam, Run!"

[What follows is from News-Press.com]

Monaghan's most important role would be delivering that message to wealthy, like-minded potential campaign donors. Most analysts say the lack of a fundraising network confines Brownback to second-tier status in a crowded GOP field. Brownback is counting on Monaghan to change that."I hope he'll help us in a number of ways, with people he knows around the country," Brownback said.A key will be Legatus, a lay group for conservative Catholic CEOsthat Monaghan founded. The organization has more than 5,000 members...."That's the blue-chip group," said William Donohue, the president ofthe Catholic League for Religious and Civil Rights, a conservative group on whose board of advisers Monaghan sits. "In Legatus, he's got thousands of members who are all Catholics, all well-to-do. This is the cream of the Catholic community. And they all have friends. You talk about where to go for fundraising, there's a list there that's been around for a number of
years."
[End of cite from News-Press article]

AM's Observations……2.) Legatus = "the cream of the Catholic community?" Way to go Bill…

…Note to Bill Donohue: The "cream of the Catholic community" are the moms that stay at home and raise their children, the grandmothers that attend daily Mass, the men (white and blue collar) who say the rosary with their children in the evenings--handing on their faith, the humble middle-aged woman who works at a crisis-pregnancy center and spends her day talking a teenager out of an abortion, the faithful priest who wakes in the middle of the night to anoint a dying soul, and the faithful sister who washes the floor of her convent and prays for peace…

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Comments:

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AM writes: "The "cream of the Catholic community" are the moms that stay at home and raise their children, the grandmothers that attend daily Mass, the men (white and blue collar) who say the rosary with their children in the evenings"

No doubt. So true. Just like the wives I've met in the AMSOL community, many with large families. And the bright courageous lads and ladies who left other opportunities on the table to go to a place like AMSOL, b/c they believed in its mission. These are the same folks who stand to have the value of their degrees crushed, were the ABA to revoke AMSOL's accreditation. And who, may I ask, specifically requested the ABA to begin their fact finding mission--a mission that may end in damaging the the most valuable asset (their degree) that many of these AMSOL grads have? I know that mocking financial resources is the order of the day, but folks: these are your own peers, not mine. You might try acting like you care.

.30-06 12.18.06 - 8:41 pm #

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.30-06 Point taken, but please don't make the mistake of thinking that we don't care, just because we're motivated to fight a tyrant. What you see on these pages is the public face of the opposition - you see argument, rhetoric and logic (and yes, some polemic). You do not see the compassion that truly does underly all this (at least for many of us). It breaks my heart to see my alma mater torn asunder like this.If I were the weeping kind, I would weep for the current students. I feel their plight, truly. And for alumni as well. I am one of them, currently in a job I'd like out of, and wondering if my AMSOL degree will help me or hurt me in my upcoming job
search. Nonetheless, we cannot be silent. What you're suggesting is that we stop
calling the police about our abusive patriarch for fear of what they may do to
our "happy home".Don't blame the victims, 06. Or those who would fight back to
see the abuse stopped altogether.

AMSOL_Pioneer 12.18.06 - 9:06 pm #

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Well, in my judgment, the decision of what state to place a law school in is
a long way from the decision of whether to beat one's spouse. I'm not sure that
analogy really stands up. I think the best argument for those who oppose the
move to FL has been that the ABA might strip the law school of its
accreditation, injuring its long-term prospects and the livelihood of its
alumni. But for the same people who have been offering this argument to then
turn around and REQUEST the ABA inquiry is, well, hard for me to understand. I
guess its kind of like the folks who sneak knives onto airplanes to show that
our security is lax. The only difference is that the TSA is a government
agency--it can show little competency and still keep getting funded. The law
school has real competition and public embarassment has real consequences.

.30-06
12.19.06 - 12:19 am #

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.30-60,I'd reiterate what I said to Anonymous to you:
I believe the ABA inquiry is about CURRENT problems with the
governance/administration of the law school. The ABA requires faculty
involvement in the governance of a law school; for the last year now, faculty
concerns have been ignored. At any other law school in the country, even a whiff
of a possibility that the majority of a faculty had no confidence in their dean
would have lead to the dean's resignation... but not at AMSOL. It is the duty of
the faculty to their students to report current violations of ABA standards,
especially those violations that the faculty believe are detrimental to the
school's well-being and detrimental to the legal education of current students.
As Pholgizo said, better some fact-finding by the ABA now, instead of a
dissolution of the law school later.

Thales, Man of the Year 12.19.06 - 5:41 am#

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Thales,

Whether the ABA investigation is a result of the move, or rather a result of the N.C. manifesto and "current governance" does not seem to be the point: Dobranski's email indicates the ABA is coming at the request of some faculty members, and that assertion has been denied by no one (especially the ones who most likely did it) in the faculty. Sure, the Dean could be lying, but not even the most anti-Dobranski elements here seem to believe that. The risk of some negative action being taken by the ABA against the law school has been brought on by faculty action.

I understand that in their minds--and probably yours--their action is justified. More than that, perhaps an ABA investigation was inevitable. Don't know. But either way, the fact remains that they requested the ABA to take an action that could damage alums and the institution.

I guess my only point is that you folks have been slamming the Dean and T.M. for considering something that many here honestly believe would damage the Law School (move to FL). How about a little consistency when the faculty do something that could also cause some serious damage to AMSOL (request ABA presence and interference)?

I have no experience with the ABA, but if they're like the other oversight agencies I've dealt with, you never know what will happen once they get inside your four walls (how long they'll stay, whether the subject of their investigation will change, what their ultimate action will be). It was a tremendously risky move to make.

.30-06 | Homepage | 12.19.06 - 8:55 am | #

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.30-60,AMSOL is a law school... as such it is involved with the ABA,
whether we like it or not. AMSOL is reliant on the ABA for its accreditation and
the ABA has oversight of the goings-on at the law school, whether we like it or
not. In order to gain ABA approval and accreditation, AMSOL represented to the
ABA financial stability, a good library, good students, good faculty, etc. If
there are fundamental problems in these areas, it would be the height of
foolishness to try to sweep them under the carpet, in the hope that the ABA
doesn't notice. Full accreditation doesn't mean that the ABA will never look at
AMSOL again. The ABA will look at AMSOL some time in the future (and they will
definitely look at AMSOL if it decides to move to Florida - with a possible
revocation of accreditation).So, ABA inquiry and interference is inevitable.
Should the ABA look into problems now, or when AMSOL reaches the
point-of-no-return and finds itself in Florida with a substantial change in
faculty?It is not an ABA inquiry that will damage the school (remember, in order
to achieve accreditation, the ABA had to make many periodic visits and inquiries
to the school). If damage comes from the ABA inquiry, it will be the result of
fundamental problems found by the ABA during the inquiry.

Thales, Man of the Year
12.19.06 - 9:41 am #

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Thales,I don't disagree with some of what you're
saying here. In fact, it's similar but a little stronger than what I
said:

"perhaps an ABA investigation was inevitable." -me

"ABA inquiry and interference is inevitable" -you

But that doesn't address the issue of timing (and while I offered the possibility, it's probably too early to say such an investigation is inevitable). Why bring the scrutiny down on yourself? It may come anyway, but there's too much to lose to court trouble.As you say, ABA oversight is a fact of life. But so is, for example, IRS oversight. Let's consider that example--I may be the most ethical guy in the world, but that doesn't mean that an IRS auditor, armed with 10,000 pages of IRC rules and regs, couldn't gin up a way to hit me with back taxes, interest, a penalty, etc. Now it may be my goal to be more in compliance with IRS rules and regs, but wouldn't it be prudent to do my best to handle that situation on my own, without inviting official sanction?

I have no doubt that the ABA has many folks in it who were anti-AMSOL from the get go, since the industry is laden with liberal secularists. Why put yourselves in their crosshairs one year, one month, or one week before you have to? And what if the BOG elects not to move? There may have been no ABA investigation (as opposed to normal ongoing oversight) at all if not for the request by the faculty.

.30-06 Homepage 12.19.06 - 10:01 am #

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.30-60,Yes, it would be more prudent to handle things on your own, without
inviting official sanction. I think the position of the faculty, however, is
that they've tried to handle things on their own; they've brought concerns to
the Dean and they've brought these concerns and their concerns about the Dean
himself to the BoG... with no response.And why the ABA now and not later? I
think because the faculty think that a decision in favor of Florida is
inevitable and imminent. Up until last December BoG meeting, the Dean was saying
that the BoG might decide at the December meeting; now it sounds like the
decision will happen at the next BoG meeting in March. So the decision is
imminent. And from all evidence so far, (eg, the lack of response to the
faculty/alumni/student concerns about Florida; the Reed-White feasibility
study), it appears that the BoG will be deciding in favor of Florida. So the
faculty decided to act.

Thales, Man of the Year 12.19.06 - 10:25 am #

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Thales,You write,"And why the ABA now and not later? I think because the
faculty think that a decision in favor of Florida is inevitable and
imminent."

Fair enough. Unlike Newbie whom I replied to above, you're shooting
straight by writing that the move to Florida is the primary motivation for
notifying the ABA. Whether it was a justifiable action to take, in light of the
possible consequences to AMSOL staff, students and alumni, is a judgment call.
Since we've both let our judgments be known, I guess there's no sense rehashing
it.

.30-06 Homepage 12.19.06 - 1:45 pm #

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lawdog,"I am encouraged by the
number of our fellows who put aside self-interest to do what is right. Maybe you
should take notes." ...

...while you are right in asserting
that a willingness to see one's own degree devalued for "justice" to prevail is,
in a sense, selflessness, the related consequence is that the value of other
people's degrees, who may or may not agree with your struggle, is also
diminished.

.30-06 Homepage 12.19.06 - 1:54 pm #

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30-.06,..."If TM steps down, or bows out.... are you committed enough to help support
AMSoL in AA, or is the concept of AMSoL just attractive to you ....no matter
what or where its future or demise may lay? To think that the struggle here is
soley a result of, or is brought on by a potential move to Florida is an insult
to the Founding Faculty, the dedicated staff, and the deserving alums who have
watched (for more than just the time this blog or NC votes have existed) the
actions of TM et al. They have had their eyes open for some time...... give them
some credit.

newbie 12.19.06 - 2:54 pm #

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Newbie,You ask: "If TM steps
down, or bows out.... are you committed enough to help support AMSoL in AA, or
is the concept of AMSoL just attractive to you ....no matter what or where its
future or demise may lay?"The answer to that question is yes. I would continue
to support AMSOL in MI or FL. There's just no other school doing what AMSOL is
doing. I don't think my financial contribution (even if combined with 1,000 of
my closest friends) would equal T.M.'s monetary commitment, but I'd still be on
board either way.

.30-06 Homepage 12.19.06 - 4:41 pm
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